Some More Random "Maxims and Arrows"
John GibbonsThis is getting to be a habit. It’s great fun to make outlandish statements without any need to back them up. My sincere advice: If you write in objecting to any of these observations, I want you always to keep in mind that the maxims you are objecting to are not the only ones that need to be objected to; the other ones are equally foolish. The solution? Pack a picnic lunch and make a day of it.
Here Goes:
1. All the Transylvanian folk songs in the world aren’t worth one whisker on the chin of Bluebeard’s Castle. Bartok wasted his time with “ethnomusicology”.
2. Modern concert pianists are too perfect. Perfection is boring. Hear that, messieurs Pollini and Perahia? Make some wrong notes. Wrong notes are like shaking some pepper on your scrambled eggs. They improve the dish.
3. Can Korngold be that good? If hearing is believing, he is.
4. Forget the academy, please. Webern is a nature composer. He is closer to Mahler than to anyone else. And I ain’t talking about In Sommerwind.
5. French grand opera is a treasure. Why don’t we hear more of it? Money, money, money. And send me over some of those ballet dancers. You know, for later.
6. You want Russian neo-classicism? Forget Stravinsky. Your man is Tchaikovsky. Take an evening and give Queen of Spades a whirl. You’ll be glad you did.
7. Darius Milhaud. ‘nuff said.
8. But keep your Ned Rorems. Art songs or artsy-fartsy songs? You can keep Sam Barber too. (except of course, for Vanessa. Everyone knows that that’s a super dooper doo-dilly-doozer of a masterpiece. No wonder it’s played constantly!
9. Haydn’s piano sonatas. Somebody help me, pleeeeze! Masterpieces or bores?
10. Why is Prokofiev’s worst piano concerto (the third) the one that always gets played? And why is his worst opera (Love for Three Oranges) the one that always gets played? Did you know that in some jurisdictions, simply whistling the march tune from that opera is a misdemeanor? I kid you not.
Reader Comments (13)
"9. Haydn’s piano sonatas. Somebody help me, pleeeeze! Masterpieces or bores?"
John - I know -- from a previous class with you -- that you like his symphonies. And you have to like his string quartets -- everyone does,right? So, what's your problem with the piano sonatas?
Michael
John,
For someone as busy as you, I'm amazed you find the time to make lists like these.
1. Bartok is awesome. He didn't waste his time with "ethnomusicology". I'd much rather listen to Bartok's folk idioms than Coplands!
2. Prefection is boring? That polini recording of Petrushka is the real deal. Note perfect performances are only boring if there is nothing behind the notes.
3. Whats wrong with Korngold. The Violin concerto is fantastic and I would much rather here it than the Sibeilius.
4. Who's Webern:)?
5. "French grand opera is a treasure". One of the more ridiculous things I have heard you say.
6. "You want Russian neo-classicism?" Not really.
7. "Darius Milhaud. ‘nuff said" One of the funnier things I have heard you say and I totally agree.
8. Ned Rorem...no thanks. Barber is in a different world and composed some good stuff besides Vanessa. Orchestral essays, string quartets. Summer music for wind quintet. A really great song for soprano that I cant think of.
9. Haydn's piano sonatas. Not masterpieces but not bores. There is some good stuff in there. The late ones in particular. I'd listen to Alicia de Larrocha play them and be very entertained.
10. Can't argue with you on this one. You can add the 5th symphony to that list.
Michael: It's good to hear from you. I play all the Haydn sonatas, and find many lovely things. But Haydn is at his best in collaborative genres. Of course, the string quartets are magnificent beyond all powers of description, and I have yet to hear a symphony I didn't really, really like. Ry has a sensible comment on the Haydn issue.
Ry: Jumpin' Bobcats! You still can't tell when I'm joking or serious! Listen pal: those ballerinas ain't gonna wanna come over to my house if I didn't sit through the stinkin' opera! They'll be offended! Ah,the price we pay! And it is precisely because I do like Bartok very, very much that I object to the ethnomusicology business. He shoulda been writin' more operas and ballets. Glad someone else has a soft spot for the delightful personality of Milhaud. Gentleness, wit, craftsmanship, he was a winner!
Possibly the really great Barber soprano piece that Ryan is trying to remember is "Knoxville: Summer of 1915" ? Barber's Knoxville plus his Violin Concerto plus his 1st Symphony have already attained, and will keep, repertory status which will forever elude Ned Rorem (except for his song "Early One Morning") and Milhaud and Webern and French Grand Opera.
Repertory status, Schmepretory Schmatus. Milhaud would've really liked me and understood my humor. Creation du Monde and L'homme et son desir deserve repertory status much more than Barber, but the world ain't fair. Webern? A weird, weird case. Has any composer ever had such a passionate, if small, coterie of fans and yet so many detractors? French grand opera ain't got a chance in the world's economic environment, so it's hard to make judgments about its intrinsic merits. I began to promote its merits in the spirit of perversity, and accidentally fell in love with the genre sincerely. You really think Barber will survive for a long time? I got my doubts.
Interesting blog.I don't agree about Prokofiev,whose music I adore.The Love for Three\Oranges is a blast,sort of like Monty Python
goes to the opera,and the 3rd piano concerto is deservedly popular(I like all five).You should'nt make
such unfair generalizations about pianists.
"Knoxville: Summer of 1915"
Thats it! Thanks David. I would have never thought of that.
John, I wish Bartok would have composed more string quartets, piano trios, and orchestral pieces. You and your opera. There is more music out there than Opera you know:).
Still on Haydn's sonatas, John: Andras Schiff, in his lectures on Beethoven's piano sonatas, states that they were greatly influenced by Haydn's sonatas. Do you agree?
To Robert: This is all in fun! I own full and vocal scores of Lover for Three, full and 2-pno. scores of 3rd pno concerto, and several recordings of each. And I'll probably buy more. Can't I criticize these works? I sure do like th 2nd concerto, 6th symphony, and War and Peace more than these pieces, however! And Prokofiev is my wife's favorite composer, so I'm already on thin ice. Don't make it worse!
To Michael: I wholeheartedly agree. And you know, Beethoven's sonatas were also influenced by Clementi and C.P.E. Bach. Or was that P.D.Q. Bach?
John,
Your doubts about the longevity of Barber surprised me greatly, so I did a bit of research into the data on number of performances compiled by the American Symphony Orchestra League.Their data are on-line for the past seven (2000/01 to 2006/07) seasons of American orchestras. Adding up all seven seasons (and ignoring repeat performances in a run of two or more concerts), I get the following totals:
Barber 353 performances
Milhaud 52
Rorem 17
Webern (Op 1 and before) 23
Webern (After Op 1) 21
The Barber Violin Concerto, with 91 performances, was played more than the complete works of Milhaud plus the complete works of Rorem plus the complete atonal works of Webern. It's particularly delightful to find that Webern's Passacaglia op 1 plus Im Sommerwind (both tonal) were played as much as the total of all of his atonal pieces.
This shows the reality of the what performers want to play and what orchestra managements want to present to their ticket buying public. Barber is clearly now among the immortals, while Webern is fading away.
What can I say? I'm charmed by Milhaud, always fascinated and often moved by Webern, and bored by Barber, generally. Martin Luther said, "Here I stand, and I can do no other." Why don't you check chamber music performances? I bet Webern comes much closer, or even wins. And remember the fate of cats like Franz Schreker? Seemed like he was a pretty big deal at the time. For me, the public at large can never be the arbiter. I used tl love barber and loathe Webern. Ah, but times change. I'll tell you this, however...when those French ballerinas arrive and I turn down the lights and pop the champagne, it's the Barber violin concerto I'll be spinning on the turntable, certainly not Webern's concerto for nine instruments. At least, I think those ballerinas are gonna arrive. I'm starting to get worried.
John,
Thanks for doing such a great job with the Mendelssohn/Schumann class. I hated for it to end. Question: Could the reason for the neglect of Schumann's "Faust" be that it had to compete with great operas by Verdi, Wagner, and others? Of course, "Genoveve" didn't make it either.
After class yesterday I headed to the Chgo. Ave. Borders and was delighted to find in their paltry classical selection a CD, by a very young Murray Parahia, of Schumann's "Davidsbundlertanze" and "Fantasiestucke." Hooray!
With best wishes,
Frances Vandervoort
Frances:
I don't think Schumann's score competes with opera, I think it competes with symphony and oratorio, but most probably, a sophisticated and demanding piece that costs a lot of money and doesn't have an obvious public cache faces a difficult fate...